Remember that Meguro interview thing? Turns out the one I actually wanted to translate was Kaneko’s but I made a…slight miscalculation at some point. So here it is! Warning for long ass interview, awkward translation done at 3 am and possible mistakes.
The theme of Digital Devil Saga is karma = “eating”
Q: So far, you have been involved in character design, art direction and many others for the Megami Tensei series; what were you in charge of in the case of DDS?
A: I contributed to the most important aspect of the system, “eating”, but also to parts of the story from the early days of the project, as well as the basis of the world setting, including the scenario draft; however, after that I ended up in charge of the character design after I entrusted the rest to the current staff.
Q: The main theme of DDS is human brutality, i.e. their karma and true nature. What do you think about that?
A: The word “karma” might seema a bit too much, but I believe that besides basic necessities, humans also need something like someone’s life energy. Vampires, for example, suck people’s blood, right? That’s their means of preserving their life.
During the Middle Ages, when vampire legends were born, it was believed that blood was the essence of life. If you think about it, people are just the same. Eating the fish on the dining table in the morning means eating their lives. If we’re afraid of arteriosclerosis we have to eat vegetables, and this time, we’re taking in their lives.The eating habits of humans are just the same as those of vampires.
Humans must use another life as provisions, no matter the source, otherwise they can’t live. This is why this time I wanted the action of “eating” to become a keyword.
Themes: from “bleak” to “mild”
Q: How did discussions with the staff go after you decided to introduce this keyword into the plot?
A: I explained my ideas to the people in charge of planning and scenario, told them about the concept of good and so on and gradually turned them into something easier to understand. All I did after that was to wait and see how they would interpret these ideas in their own style. The end result gained a lighter atmosphere, or, how should I put it…since it was milder, so quite charming. If I had written the story, it would have turned out really bleak.
Q: Was your original plot darker?
A: Yes. To be honest, I would have preferred a much bleaker atmosphere, but not everything so be according to my preferences. We are working on a bleaker game, so I believe that this time the staff was successful at greating a mild atmosphere.
Q: Up until now, the themes of the Megami Tensei series have been mainly related to the confrontation between gods and demons, but I feel that this time the theme was different, touching on the true nature of humans. Did you spend more time than usual thinking about it?
A: I had all kinds of piled up ideas, and I changed my mind so many times…The games might be part of the same series, but players would get bored if they are all the same. I’ve been meaning to make a game that wouldn’t get people bored for some time, so here was my chance! (laughs)
Q: It feels like the Megami Tensei series has descended to our…the humans’ point of view, right?
A: Indeed. When we’re young, we think of big things and can’t see what’s around us, but as we grow older we realise that what is close to us is greater.
For example, we might think the fish we’re eating had a life like in “Finding Nemo”…or not (laughs). But that is a rather adult perception, isn’t it? It’s just that the more mature you become, the mellower you get…or, how should I put it, you’ve got to take care of your edges as well.
The characters reflect the theme
Q: Now, on to your main work, character design. Is the theme also reflected in the character design?
A: Of course. The basis of the game was the characters “eating” their enemies but since we simply couldn’t have them eat in their human forms, we figured they should do it after turning into demons. This is why the characters who turn into demons have prominent mouths; I also removed the eyes, because they stood out too much.
Q: Each character has their own mark showing up on their faces, right?
A: That’s an aggregation of data. The name itself doesn’t appear, but they are a symbol of “atma” (the power of turning into a demon).
Q: Serph’s comrades, the members of Embryon, can use the powers of the elements.
A: Games rules are similar to rock-paper-scissors, where they need special attacks with certain attributes, so we gave each member a special characteristic, linking it to the character’s established personality. Like a passionate person being represented by flames, and so on.
Q: Can you share a few ideas incorporated into their designs?
A: There’s nothing similar to an actual culture in this world, so everyone wears the tribal costumes provided by the Karma Church. They might look like patched uniforms, but they can actually be disassembled into pieces.
They can also be divided into options for mantle, back, skirt etc. That is why there is a basic suit for everyone, but dynamic characters remove their coats, and I’d also dress them to reflect their personalities. This is how we diferentiate characters. …here I am, saying there’s no culture, but I still fussed over something! (laughs)
Q: In an unusual move for this series, the protagonist is introduced as Serph from the very beginning.
A: He has an actual name, indeed, but following tradition, I drew him expressing as few feelings or showing as little personality as possible. I did this because it is unpleasant to see the character get angry when the player wouldn’t. That’s why I always make Serph look stern.
I only add enough personality so people can say “Oh, this is the protagonist of that one game”.
Q: The one who can suppress the transformation of Serph & co. into demons in the middle of their dispute is Sera, the key person. What kind of character is she?
A: Sera makes her debut naked, but Cielo or someone else put together some fitting clothes for her to wear (laughs). I gave her a very short hairstyle, since no other female character had one. But more important than her hairstyle is the fact that she is the only one in this world to have black hair.
Story and design wise, her design changed a lot, together with the scenario. I was surprised when she started singing (laughs). Anyway, she is on a sort of mission. Personality wise, some players might find her irritating.
Q: Another intriguing character is the mysterious “Angel”, related to the holder of absolute power of this world, the Karma Church.
A: Her relationship with Sera is strong, or should I say… Angel will definitely become a key person in the distant future. Design wise, it’s obvious she’s on the side of the Karma Church. The main colour here is white.
Q: Did you receive indications regarding the character design?
A: Let’s see…I started with the theme and had to give them only tribal costumes, but each tribe had their own characteristics so they had to match, or I had to give Atma marks to the characters who transformed into demons. I was basically shown the big picture.
The secret of Kaneko Kazuma’s design work
Q: This question is not limited to DDS; what is important to you besides creating designs?
A: I first think of the things that don’t look so important, but still have my own rules that determine every theme’s characteristics; the Persona series, for example, has “another me” as a main theme, so the Persona has the image of a dressed-up self, complete with mask and costume.
Since the theme of DDS is one’s instinct (= to eat), I aimed for animal-like and simple designs.
According to the rules of that “simplicity”, I decided to remove rather than add things to the designs. When I draw a strong character, I first attach all the elements from the stages of the initial design and from there streamline the design, rather than adding things like horns or wings. This is actually unexpectedly difficult, so I get terribly distressed when I don’t get sudden flashes of inspiration.
Q: Has “removing” been more important than “adding” to you since the very beginning?
A: No, it hasn’t always been like that. It took me some time to decide upon what would make a cool design.
I started by simply thinking that I should do things differently from others. I was never an actual art student, but I didn’t really like the doujin-style art that was popular at the time because I couldn’t help but think how difficult it would be to carry equipment like all those jumbled weapons and armours (laughs). Not to mention they’re not efficient at all. I thought that great guys would carry more simple things but….society went in the opposite direction.
After that I slowly started thinking about what design really was. Well, back then I didn’t have the concept of planning and adding or removing and only removed things instinctively. Looking at various things and studying design properly made me change.
Q: When was the decisive moment you changed your mind?
A: I think it was mostly something gradual, but I actively got into the business after getting to participate in scenario related parts.
I was entrusted with everything during the development of Shin Megami Tensei, and that brought considerable changes. Next, in Shin Megami Tensei II, there were also theme-related parts done in my own style. Drawing on a computer back then was still something new, so design wise, I thought I’d turn my gimmick into a weapon.
What does Megami Tensei mean to you?
Q: What position does DDS occupy among the Megami Tensei titles?
A: It’s an exception. The title has the same abbreviation as the series’ origin, Digital Devil Story, but in itself it has the subtitle “Avatar Tuner”, as the meaning behind the story. That is why I consider it on a separate line.
The ones that I think are really part of the series are Shin Megami Tensei I, II and III or so, with Devil Summoner and Persona each being independent series. However, it’s beyond doubt that each of them has the spirit of Megaten.
Q: The familiar demon fusion system is missing as well now.
A: I did think in the past that it would be nice if the system of the original Shin Megami Tensei let you eat your enemies. Eating your enemies will make you stronger. Isn’t this a type of “fusion” too? I wanted to do this one day and we decided to use it for DDS’s system, since it’s the main theme as well. The fans might be surprised there is no fusion, but they would be able to see it under a different form. That would be nice.
Q: You mentioned earlier “the spirit of Megaten”. What is your definition of Megami Tensei?
A: I don’t know whether this is the definition of Megaten or not, but compared to it, popular RPGs have got a lot of “babyface”-like facets and even if Megaten won a challenge, it wouldn’t be an actual victory; but I think this “heel” role is what is specific of this series.
I did say “heel”, but the main point is that it’s “dark”. Not actually “gloomy”, but able to say its story in a straightforward manner, show it with no dishonesty, both the good parts, and the bad parts. The actual lack of a conclusion means not saying or showing many things, but leaving the player room to reflect about the game. This is what I believe Megaten is. [wrestling terms: babyface = “hero”; heel = “antagonist”]
Q: Do you also have a “dark” side?
A: I believe so. I guess I’m intuitively unable to make “babyface”-like things. I’ve wanted to do adult-like things ever since childhood. I hated childish things. I’m sure there are people who feel the same; I don’t do it satisfy my ego or because I’m displeased…there are times when I simply choose the “rock” way.
Q: So is this the meaning of Megami Tensei to you?
A: Yes. It’s a way of expressing many familiar things we should think about every time.
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